:(

[iamashamed]

Okay,  so I just read this article, about The Daily Shows lack of women, and how the show can be sexist sometimes.

It's true, The Daily Show needs more females on the show, and it's dissapointing to hear about their history with women, it really is. It's a big problem, and it's important to adress.

But that wasn't really what caught my attention in this article.

It was the stories about Jon being a jerk; throwing scripts at someone, having feuds with people, being full of joyless rage backstage, and generally not seeming like a very kind boss, that distracted me from the article's overall point.

If this is true? then it breaks my heart. I love Jon I really do, so much, but this is just so dissapointing to hear, especially when you hear about how well Stephen treats his cast and crew. Is Jon really like this? I mean, of course he is different from when he is on camera, but I did not expect this to be the case.

I feel like a bad feminist/woman because this is what I'm focusing on instead of the patriarchal ways of our culture, but I need to get over my fangirl heart-break before I can deal with any of that .

I really hope this article is disengenious, in regards of how Jon Stewart is like, because if it isn't? then I have definitely lost some respect for the man.

Lets hope that he really isn't like this article describes him to be.

I really can't imagine this to be true and I hope it isn't.

ETA: someone wrote this on TDS's forum on TWOP:  "This doesn't fit at all with what I know. A relative of mine has actually met him and says that both he and his wife are some of the nicest people my relative had met in show business. Granted, this is strictly hearsay, but hearsay from a source I very much trust. I suspect some of what happens is that these people simply aren't cutting it and it just so happens that they're female. I've seen Lauren Weedman on other programs. She's a staple on VH1 and she's not funny.

As for Jon supposedly throwing a script, it's probably true. But haven't we all reacted in a way we later wish we hadn't? Given that it's not a story he tells or anything, I believe that if it did happen he's certainly not proud of it. And I also bet that he was feeling a lot of pressure back then because he wasn't American Sweetheart Jon Stewart, he was Dude With A Basic Cable Show Jon Stewart."

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?s=c764568ac67138eee741002ff1803878&showtopic=1162733&pid=13027500&st=39840&#entry13027500.

So yeah, I don't know.

ETA 2: Oh you guys; leave it to you to get some Jon-love up in this bitch:').<333

Comments

[dragoness22.livejournal.com]

Oh no! I haven't read the article yet (it's one of the many tabs currently open on my poor overloaded browser) but... I love Jon! He can't be a joyless asshole! D: </3

[greenpixiehair.livejournal.com]

Meh. I think the man is human. I'm sure he's an asshole sometimes, but aren't we all. Besides, for all the correspondents that come and go, there are the ones that have been there for ages, and talk about it like it's the greatest gig on earth (looking at you, John Oliver) so I doubt he's a crazy violent lunatic boss. And it's very hard to pretend to be nice all the time - think of all the comedians/actor with asshole reputations - if it is an act he deserves an Oscar. (Which... looking at his film work... just no.)

Re: the sexism, I watch a hell of a lot of panel shows, so I notice it a lot: fewer women comedians (makes me sort of proud that Spicks & Specks and Good News Week, two of the bigger comedy panel shows in Australia, have permanent female team captains.) appear on TV. They even talked about it once in the QI episode about Boys and Girls, noting that to have an even amount of men and women was, sadly, rare on their show. And then Stephen Fry noted that research showed that the most vocal and appreciative comedy audience was women, and statistics show women laugh more at men than other women, and wondered if that had something to do with it. Which is a thought :P



/essay. Jeez, way to blah blah blah on, me. Sorry.

[sloppycronkite.livejournal.com]

think of all the comedians/actor with asshole reputations

This. And people always go on about what a great boss he is ...
Some article like this pops up every couple of years, and just repeats the same things, over and over. It's not really anything new.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

I agree.<3

[duckgirlie.livejournal.com]

That's on of the things I love about Charlie Brooker as well, all of his panel shows have at least one female contestant per episode.

[anais-rhys.livejournal.com]

if it is an act he deserves an Oscar. (Which... looking at his film work... just no.)

I lol'd hard.

[sloppycronkite.livejournal.com]

Well, I remember a while back (few years ago, actually) there was this piece that "surfaced" ... I think it was either written by Lauren Weedman, or an interview with her. Anyway, she came off as really unprofessional and kind of stupid, so yeah, IDK how much her word is worth.

I ... I just want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. :/

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

I really hope it isn't true:(

[http://users.livejournal.com/_lady_vanilla_/]

I'm calling bullshit on the whole thing (not the lack of women thing but then I get annoyed with EVERY comedy show/event with it's lack of women) - this is one article and there hasn't been ANY other complaints. People can be arseholes in a tough job but this seems to crossover between 'Jon gets frustrated now and then' to the man is a cruel cunt.

Unless a whole flood of behind the scenes articles get published to this ilk, I think it's bullshit.

[lady-sesstra.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Like other people have already said, the guy's only human, and since there HAVEN'T been a flood of articles about him being a douche, it's probably something that's only happened a few times.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think this as well.

[sakuya-baby.livejournal.com]

I'm too tired to post a worthy comment, luv, and too tired to delve into how few women are on these types of shows, but I will say that I watch plenty of interviews on people, and many of the comedians who have worked with Jon have all called him a genuinely sweet person.

Fran Drescher has known him for years, and said he was very sweet and funny.

I think this is just the same crap they hash out about everyone famous.

OMG SCANDALLLL YOU THOUGHT HE WAS NICE BUT GASP! HE WAS NOT!

It's all crap baby.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

<3

[alivemagdolene.livejournal.com]

Dude, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. The article even starts out attempting to be a hatchet job (the literary sneering of what are supposed to be attributes are a good signal) rather than any serious consideration of the possible sexism of the show.

Lauren Weedman has surfaced before and while I (um, obviously) think sexism is a social disease that is still steadily rotting our culture, I think she's using it as an excuse for why she was fired. The truth is, some people that happen to be women (like Lauren Weedman) aren't funny or at least don't have humor in line with TDS's writers (many of whom, I might add, have maintained a feminist sense of humor, John Oliver for example). So she's jilted and lashing out, apparently. Even, say, several years later.

The article downplaying both Samantha Bee and Kristen Schaal (uh, the fact Kristen's pieces have been specifically directed to skewer the sexism in the media seem to be entirely lost on this "journalist"-- which again makes ya think this might not be an entirely fair and balanced viewpoint) and I'm pretty sure I didn't see a mention of Nancy Walls, suggest a skewed logic. And not mentioning the female executive producers and again, downplaying the role of Allison Silverman is a huge tip off that the article is already set in one direction.

I don't believe that having all female writers would result in a non-sexist show. Chelsea Lately boasts the most female writers of a late night comedy show and they regularly dump sexist humor (when I heard her talk about Hillary's "cankles" being the reason Bill Clinton was so avid to broker peace for the American journalists in North Korea, I stopped watching the show regularly).
And yeah, I'm among the "ick" factor on Olivia Munn's background in comedy. That doesn't make me a "bad" feminist. Frankly, the whole "support women by any means necessary" is bad feminism (frankly, I think of it not as "bad" feminism but as "not really" feminism). I mean, shit, if we want a woman just because she's a woman, welcome President Palin (just typing that made me throw up a little) and Vice President Ann Coulter (that made me throw up a lot).

The fact the article is paying only lip service to feminism (like, ahem, Palin) and the fact you're focusing instead on the nasty gossip it claims to have on Jon is actually a pretty normal reaction. The article is, again, a hatchet job thinly disguised as a plea against the "sexism" of TDS.

There are far better ways of considering the sexism and the patriarchy still inherent in pop culture. I recommend reading Feministing (but not their comments-- ugh) and Bitch Magazine, both regular critics of pop culture.

And remember: take everything you read, especially on the internet, with a big ol' grain of salt.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

amazing comment bb, and I agree.

[warriorpoet.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that there's no chance whatsoever that Jon Stewart might be kind of a dick every now and then. It's a high pressure, fast turnaround, high volume job, and jeez, the dude's only human. But I think if this article had just gone with the already well-trodden story that late night comedy (and, well, comedy in general, and even television in general) is a boys club, then it might be a case of "Yeah? What else is new?" and nobody would pay attention. But if it's being served with a side of undermining the public persona of someone who is generally portrayed and spoken about as being a nice guy, then people might talk about it more.

Also, Madeliene Smithberg worked with Jon back on his MTV show. From what I understand, she had a hand in him being picked to replace Kilborn. Given the problems they'd had with Kilborn, I don't think she would've chosen to work with him again if he was that much of an epic jackass.

Like alivemagdolene said, they seem to be cherry picking details in this, like downplaying Allison Silverman's work, and the pieces that Kristen Schaal* has done, and completely neglecting to mention Nancy Walls**, or other past female writers like Rachel Axler (when they say that last fall they went from no women writers to two, it makes it sound like there have been no women writers in the entirety of the show's history. Which isn't true), or any of the women who have worked as segment producers. I'm not denying that there's a definite dearth of women working in late night comedy, but I honestly don't believe it's any kind of grand conspiracy on the part of individual shows. I really do think the significantly disproportionate amount of women who are in the existing talent pool has a lot to do with it. Maybe that's naive of me? I don't know.

* and ** Actually, now that I think about it: Kristen is in a relationship with one of the TDS writers, and Nancy was (is) married to Steve Carell. If they really wanted to, I'm sure they could've pushed the "You can't get on the air unless you're sleeping with someone else on the staff" angle and even used that to play up the parallels they've drawn to Letterman. So perhaps I should give the author of the article credit for not doing that.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you said.

[rockinhamburger.livejournal.com]

I personally don't think this article is entirely at factual (or... at all, actually). There are no doubt some nuggets of truth, but the bit about Jon in particular seems inaccurate. Stephen stayed on the show for many years, and I don't think he would have done that if Jon had been this unruly, angry boss. I'm sure Jon's had his moments, just like anyone else, but I don't believe he's the horrible head honcho this article makes him out to be.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

That's my thoughts as well, it seems like the article had it in for him.

[pyroclasticgrub.livejournal.com]

Ech...the article sounds bogus to me. I wouldn't worry about it. Also, speaking as a boss, and a pretty nice one at that, I can tell you that I also burst into fits of joyless rage and periodically throw things. Not at my staff obviously, but when the fail gets to me, it's cathartic to wreck things.

[cryptic-arcane.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't put so much weight in what Lauren Weedman has to say. Have you read this article? She comes across as a wacko.

And yeah, I know Jon isn't the ~hero~ we all make him out to be, but I seriously can't believe he's an ass from the numerous accounts of him being otherwise. The throwing script at someone was disappointing, but hey, he's human. I think that "oft-told" story is the only story there is because it happened just once, and it stuck.

I think the joyless rage is somewhat true, though. Hasn't he mentioned in interviews that the process of making the show would be quite boring to an outsider?

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

JFC what is that article? it's like... rps by an insider.

[jon-stephen-fan.livejournal.com]

Have you seen him on Oprah? She has been at his house before that interview too and man, I've never seen anyone so in awe about someone else, lol. I don't see how this can be true.

From what I've heard/read Jon Stewart might be a bit of a perfectionist (dunno how accurate this info actually is though), so he might be a little picky or sth :P John Oliver said in an interview that he he re-writes most of the script after rehearsal.. He takes his work very seriously apparently, which isn't a bad thing, I believe (and as a perfectionist myself *SIGH*, I can understand it too). He'under a lot of pressure, so I'm sure he also gets in a bad mood from time to time, but if he really was a giant jerk we'd know by now, I think. I believe he's a good person, it's in everything he does. I've never seen him attack anyone personally or insulted anyone that came on his show. And he's always respectful and polite, also with people he disagrees.

I also remember an interview with Stephen where the interviewer asked him about his *boss* Jon Stewart. And he repeated "my boss.." somewhat amused, like he has never really thought like that about Jon. So he can't be too "bossy" I guess. ;P Also, if you see how much fun they have together (he and all the correspondents etc), I really can't imagine him being a bad boss. Plus, Jon Stewart is one of the most self-deprecating people I've ever known... I really wouldn't think too much about it :)

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

I think you're right regarding him being a perfectionist, I could see that.

Hah, I just like analyzing him I guess (creepy, I know).

[raikuya.livejournal.com]

Jumping on the bandwagon of Jon love.

If the stories about him throwing stuff at Madeleine Smithberg are true, well. That's really Not Fucking Cool At All. But of course one story doesn't show the entirety of someone's identity. It always struck me that Jon was somewhat of an asshole for parts of his life, particularly before he met his wife. And as that commenter on the forum said, he's probably not proud of anything bad he's done.

The Daily Show and practically every show on television has problems with female representation and how they deal with women's issues (some segments in TDS regarding women have made me go =/ and I actually would have liked to see that in the article, but alas). I don't think it means that Jon is a women-hating bastard. I think it means that Jon is a man and has male privilege and unfairly takes advantage of that sometimes, just like all men do.

And if he is a jackass boss and disrespectful to people on a consistent basis, I'm surprised that this is the first time I'm hearing about it. Jon's still our badass media-critiquing dancing-like-a-white-boy fake newsman, and I still love him.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

"If the stories about him throwing stuff at Madeleine Smithberg are true, well. That's really Not Fucking Cool At All. But of course one story doesn't show the entirety of someone's identity. It always struck me that Jon was somewhat of an asshole for parts of his life, particularly before he met his wife. And as that commenter on the forum said, he's probably not proud of anything bad he's done."

Oh this is so true. In the video clips of him from the 90's, he seemed kinda assholish and very different from The Jon we see to day. And It's no secret that I like present-Jon better.

I wrote so much bb sorry

[merkinmuffley.livejournal.com]

lol I've read this article like three times and I'm now finally ready to make ~serious comments.

There are a LOT of stereotypes that go along with being a woman in comedy. It unfortunately comes with its own stigma, and TDS isn't immune to it. Practically everything a female comedian (I hate the word comedienne, I'm not sure why) does is always put into the context of being a woman, especially her looks (omg I can go on for days on that issue it's infuriating and I have too many personal anecdotes lol). I wish it wasn't so, but that's the truth. For what its worth, TDS (and the Colbert Report) have over the years been making some strides in employing more female writers, especially compared to other comedy institutions (*cough* the Simpsons), but admittedly those efforts look measly compared to the larger issue.

However, I have a lot of problems with this article's treatment of women writers as well. The majority of inflammatory comments come from Lauren Weedman, who I think you've already read is kind of a wackjob (and not very funny, I'm sorry to add). But for women who've worked at the show for years, the writer seems infuriatingly dismissive. The only mention of Lizz Winstead is in reference to Craig Kilborn's misogynistic statements. She was actually incredibly instrumental in not only getting TDS off the ground initially, but introducing some of its key elements. TDS would have been very different without her. She was also, incidentally, producer of the Jon Stewart show. Clearly, she has no problem working with Jon, or in getting to contribute creatively to the program, so the article writers decided to downplay her achievements to further the point they're trying to make. They do the same thing with Allison Silverman, who went on to be the HEADWRITER of the Colbert Report. Being a headwriter of a comedy program, a political satire program no less, is a HUGE accomplishment for a woman, and one that's practically unheard of, especially in the beginning stages of the show. Why are her contributions to the brand dismissed? The fact that the article glosses over that is problematic. In attempting to paint Jon and TDS as a whole as completely misogynistic, they fail to give several successful, hardworking women writers their due. Feels just as misogynistic to me.

As for Jon as a person, I mean I've never met him. This article, though, is basically the first time I've read of his being a "joyless rageful jerk", and I've been following the show my whole adult life. Coming from someone who wants to be a comedy writer and knows some professionals: comedians are essentially messed up a good amount of the time. Even taking the anecdotes in the article to be completely true, Jon being surly sometimes and a stressed out perfectionist still leaves him coming off better than a lot of comedians in the game. Feel bad saying that, since I love almost all comedians but that's the truth. They get into ass moods lol. I do too. Even Edward R. Murrow (the other person I will endlessly fangirl over)had days where he wouldn't talk to anyone. For the most part, everyone who comes out of the Daily Show has only nice things to say about their boss, even after they've stopped working on the show or Comedy Central in general and have no obligation to be complementary. In addition, people who've met him always have stories of him being respectful and nice, if maybe a little awkward (again, so common with comedy writers). If 90% of stories about Jon are about how nice he is, and 10% are about him being an ass, that's still a pretty amazing ratio. I can't fault him for taking his job extremely seriously.

tl;dr I haven't lost hope that I'll get to write for the Daily Show someday despite my distracting supple breasts ;)

Re: I wrote so much bb sorry

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

I love this comment bb, there is so much truth to it.<3

[wheatear.livejournal.com]

I don't know how true that stuff is, but I think the lack of women is a problem with comedy in general, not just The Daily Show. It would be nice if TDS was a bit more progressive on that front, but I guess the only thing you can say is that they're not worse than anybody else.

[mercystars.livejournal.com]

We all tend to put our heroes up on pedestals and we love to think of them as infallibly wonderful and incapable of being assholes, which is why it's always such a shock to hear stories like this. But that's just it, they're stories, and you can either believe them word for word, or not, or step back from them for a moment and think, yeah, Jon's just a guy and as such he no doubt has days when he DOES act like a douche, like all the rest of us.

I've been a fan of Jon's since his Short Attention Span Theater days (good times), and TBH, these stories of him being a rl jerk are all recent. So either Jon's getting cranky in his old age, or haters gonna hate. Either way, unless he starts kicking puppies, I don't really care what Jon does. I WOULD like to see more women comedy writers, though, but not just BECAUSE they're women.

[iamashamed.livejournal.com]

what do you mean recent, what other things have you heard?

[anais-rhys.livejournal.com]

I'll leave it to the brilliant people who have already articulated far better than I could have what didn't sit right with me in that article. Don't feel like a bad feminist, we talk about sexism in the actual TDS content all the time.

[wildthyme.livejournal.com]

I don't have anything to add to what people have already said, plus I don't think I have the brainpower right now to actually read the article in question, but if you're interested in the "women-in-comedy" discussion and haven't already seen it, there's this from a panel of women comedy writers, including Allison Silverman, discussing this very issue and I thought it was really interesting, though I also desperately wish that more of it was up online. I think even as fans we can think about this discussion, you know? There's no need to feel guilty for acknowledging the flaws of a show you enjoy. :)

[shoebox_addict]

I saw the article, I commented, and was completely attacked for my views. Sometimes the internet really sucks. But I definitely don't think Jon is the way they portrayed him in that article. ;___; Thanks for posting that comment from those forums. I just can't see Jon as a mean guy, I really don't think he's like that.